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04th March 2025

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 149

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Tell me a joke, Lu.

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Unfortunately I cannot. I鈥檓 not a comedian, I鈥檓 a technologist. I have a company called Craic Health where we work with the comedy industry. And I鈥檓 sure that we can find people that can help you with a joke, but not me unfortunately.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, it is a good job that you鈥檙e not one of the people on stage at the comedy events that you organise. This is Access All. I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and I鈥檓 talking to you Lu Jackson because you organise events that are comedy on prescription to help people with their mental health. Tell me a bit more about that. paint me a picture.

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Comedy on prescription, which is a term I coined to encompass laughter therapy and everything that is comedy and social prescription related. So, what we鈥檝e done is we鈥檝e actually got a trial at the moment, and the trial has spanned comedy panel shows for seniors, children, as well as people facing homelessness, where we鈥檙e asking the community before and after the event how they were feeling. And what we鈥檙e looking at is the efficacy of these initial trials to see if we can integrate comedy on prescription into NHS policy.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Wow. Who goes and what happens?

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 not the usual comedy gig. It鈥檚 not like we鈥檙e prescribing tickets to go and see Ricky Gervais at Wembley Arena. The first show that we put on was actually for children and families in the Lisson Grove area of Westminster. We asked the children to be interactive with us at the sessions, so they were able to all write down a joke and then we picked out what the best joke was, and they loved it. And then the second event was just before Christmas for people facing homelessness.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And did you do the best joke thing with the people who were sleeping rough?

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We did not. It was a Robyn Perkins comedy for the Curious panel show. And she鈥檚 a science comedian, and she had an interactive session where people could go back and forth with the comedian. So, it was a bit of a different format compared to the children.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you said that you did a bit of a survey with people before they went in and after they came out. What were their reactions?

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Before the events people were saying that they were feeling average, so that was about a three out of five. And then afterwards they were feeling about a five out of five.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 quite a big difference.

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a big difference, yeah. It鈥檚 not about just sitting there and being an audience member; you鈥檙e actually participating a little bit and it encourages conversations.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 How close are we do you think, Lu, to people being prescribed comedy as part of sort of a package of things to help with their mental health if they go to the doctor?

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 In terms of comedy of prescription we have a roundtable in parliament next week to look at this very thing to see how we can now roll this out and now integrate comedy on prescription into NHS policy.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thanks a million, Lu. Good luck with the roundtable. Let us know how you get on with that.

LU-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you. Bye.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 On with the show.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 What鈥檚 the craic listeners? I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and this is Access All, the disability and mental health podcast that prescribes a weekly dose of important news and fabulous guests. Subscribe to us on 蜜芽传媒 Sounds if you haven鈥檛 already, and you can contact us on email accessall@bbc.co.uk. We are on WhatsApp for voice and text messages, 0330 123 9480. And you can find us on X and Instagram @蜜芽传媒AccessAll.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Later in this episode I will speak to the award winning author, Polly Crosby, who was as a newborn the first baby in the world to have her cystic fibrosis diagnosed via the heel prick test. But first, a leading member of Great Britain鈥檚 Para ice hockey team has criticised the lack of accessible healthcare facilities for disabled women across the country. Dani Watts became paraplegic due to a rugby incident in 2017. Dani already had two children before her injury, and she says that the healthcare she received then was far better than that she received during two traumatic pregnancies after she became a wheelchair user. We will touch upon abortion in this section, so if that鈥檚 something you don鈥檛 want to hear right now fast forward onto the next bit. Dani is with me now. Hi Dani.

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hi.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Also on the line is professor Hannah Kuper from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Professor Kuper has been doing some research into the state of maternity healthcare for disabled women in the UK. Hi Hannah.

HANNAH-听听听听听听听听听 Good morning.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Dani, just to get a bit of context for the story you鈥檙e going to tell us about your experiences, tell me a bit about your disability and your injury.

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, I sustained my spinal cord injury in 2017 during a rugby match when someone made an illegal reckless tackle on me and I was instantly paralysed. I was coming up to 28 years old so just shy of a month, yeah, just a busy mum in a new relationship and life was going great.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you were paralysed from the waist down, and you experienced quite a lot of pain as well?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, so I鈥檓 paralysed from my naval down, so I have half my abdominals. I claim them because whatever you can get after an injury is great. And then yeah, I suffer from chronic pain. A lot of people don鈥檛 really understand what that is, but chronic means all the time, so right now in this conversation I鈥檓 about eight out of ten. That surprises people because most people on eight out of ten are usually screaming with a bone hanging out of their leg somewhere, but you kind of learn to live with it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you鈥檙e talking to me in a normal register voice, but your pain is eight out of ten right now?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, my body is screaming. So, I get a lot of pain in my private areas and my seating bones. And in my legs and my feet, would you believe. People think when you鈥檙e paralysed you can鈥檛. I have so many people knock my legs and then have the cheek to say, 鈥極h don鈥檛 worry, you can鈥檛 feel it鈥� but actually it鈥檚 really painful when my legs are knocked.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, they鈥檙e in lots of pain but they don鈥檛 move by themselves?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, they just let me know they鈥檙e there.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you had two children before your injury, and then you got married and decided to have a third baby after your injury. And during that pregnancy is where some of the problems started. Tell me a bit about what happened?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Obviously we knew and understood that it wasn鈥檛 going to be the same as being pregnant post-injury because I now have a spinal cord injury. We were about 29 weeks into the pregnancy, we go to Stoke Mandeville because I keep complaining of right-sided pain. And it was there the radiologist came out after an MRI and asked me and my husband to wait. My stomach kind of dropped thinking what has she seen. But she just did explain there and then, 鈥榊our right kidney is very enlarged and I would like to go and have an opinion on it, I鈥檒l get a doctor鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 What happened after that? So, you knew you had an enlarged kidney, but what happened to kind of move things forward?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We then went on our honeymoon that was booked in. We were in a villa that wasn鈥檛 too accessible, so leaving the indwelling catheter in, making my life a lot easier on holiday getting around places. There was a lot of residue coming in the catheter. So, we leave, we go home and as soon as we land we literally go straight to the hospital. And it鈥檚 there where I was treated for sepsis. I was 32 weeks pregnant by this time, and then they explained after doing lots of testing that I would need a nephrostomy. A nephrostomy is where they put like a meat skewer straight into your kidney, they then put a catheter coming out of your kidney, and for the rest of my pregnancy I had an outside urine bag that came straight from my right kidney. And one of my ovarian veins had kinked around my urethra, but this was seen at 29 weeks. Why did I have to endure it? Could it have been stopped then? Could they have just put a stent in at 29 weeks? Who knows?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you had your daughter, Isla Rose, what did they say to you about having another baby?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We were never told do not try and get pregnant again. They didn鈥檛 want to do this procedure to remove the ovarian vein, that wouldn鈥檛 have been missed. But no one mentioned anything about not getting pregnant. Do not get pregnant was never said to us.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, the vein that was strangling your urethra wouldn鈥檛 have been missed and they had a procedure that they could do to remove it, but they didn鈥檛 want to do it while you were pregnant?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, which understandable, I鈥檇 had enough that had gone on, that never happened.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That never happened?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, seven months later, Dani, you found out that you were pregnant again. And you hadn鈥檛 had the procedure, as you say. What was the implication of that? What did the hospital advise?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Medical termination.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, to terminate the pregnancy?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, due to the complications I鈥檇 had with Isla.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And how did you feel about that?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 still something that I grieve to this day. I don鈥檛 have words. I don鈥檛 even think there are words. We were really excited, and then the next word is you can鈥檛 have it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Did the hospital help you to organise the medical termination?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 They gave us a number, but we had to do all the running, like, all the calling around and organise it all ourselves.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And what was that process like?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Exhausting because you have to find somewhere that doesn鈥檛 see your wheelchair first or doesn鈥檛 hear the scary words of, 鈥業鈥檓 disabled and I need a medical termination鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And when you were going into the building that wasn鈥檛 even straightforward, was it?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No. On arriving to the clinic we go round to the back and there鈥檚 a lift. The maintenance man explains, 鈥極h we use this lift for deliveries鈥�. But it鈥檚 actually in the shape of a gurney and it鈥檚 the emergency lift if anyone has a bleed or has any complications. It worked fine. We went up on the lift, went through. The corridors were quite narrow but I managed to get through. My thoughts were always, imagine if I was in a powerchair. But I managed it. And then they take me into a room and you鈥檙e not allowed your partner with you. I asked if he could just come in and at least get on the bed but no, no one is allowed in the room with you once you go into the room. I make it onto the couch. And I know the doctors see it as it鈥檚 a foetus, it鈥檚 nothing, but as a mum as soon as you know you鈥檙e pregnant it鈥檚 precious and you fall in love. But that鈥檚 something that a mother鈥檚 bond is, well for me that鈥檚 how every time I found out I was pregnant it鈥檚 like, wow let鈥檚 protect the baby. So, I then come out to my husband. He doesn鈥檛 really know how to鈥is emotions, he鈥檚 trying to be quite stoic for me. And I think that鈥檚 what he鈥檚 always had to do really the last seven years.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, because you鈥檝e been through a lot in the last seven years.

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you did have the medical termination. Have you had the procedure to remove that vein since then?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And why not?

DANI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Maybe I haven鈥檛 fought hard enough for it. I also, someone reached out to me on Instagram when I posted about a nephrostomy and she was an able-bodied woman that also needed a nephrostomy. She鈥檚 had it out and I think she鈥檚 on to her second, so you can ask yourself, was it because I was in a chair. Because I certainly know pre-injury I did not have any problems. I didn鈥檛 have to worry about anything when I was going to doctor鈥檚 appointments or going to deliver. I was perfect with my other two. Everything was painless and straightforward. Should it be this difficult in 2025 to access the right needs as a disabled woman?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Dani Watts thank you so much for telling me your story, it must have been really difficult to do and I very very much appreciate it, thanks Dani. Now just to say that we contacted the hospital that Dani mentioned at the start of this, where the first MRI took place, so that鈥檚 Stoke Mandeville, and they told us:

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STOKE MANDEVILLE HOSPITAL-听听听听听听 鈥淥ur patients are at the heart of everything that we do, and we aim to provide everyone with the same outstanding care.听 We are very sorry to hear that this wasn鈥檛 the case for Ms Watts due to an internal reporting failure and have reviewed our processes as a result.听 We are confident that this was entirely unrelated to her disability. 鈥�

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Listening to all of that was professor Hannah Kuper from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Hannah has been doing some work to research health equity for disabled women and disabled people. Hannah, thank you for joining us and for listening to Dani鈥檚 story. Does Dani鈥檚 story reflect what you鈥檝e heard from disabled women in your work?

HANNAH-听听听听听听听听听 Well, first of all I鈥檇 say Dani, thank you for sharing that story. I鈥檓 so sorry what happened to you, and it absolutely shouldn鈥檛 have happened. And unfortunately it reflects very strongly the kinds of evidence that we see of the experiences of women with disabilities when accessing healthcare, and particularly when accessing maternal and sexual reproductive healthcare. We see that again and again in the literature. Even though in the UK and within the NHS there are protections of the rights of women to healthcare in the equality act, in the policies on the NHS, making commitments that these services should be accessible and that reasonable adjustments should be offered.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, what鈥檚 going wrong, Hannah?

HANNAH-听听听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 think there鈥檚 enough awareness, even though up to 20% of women of reproductive age are disabled according to the UK census. And I also don鈥檛 think that we have enough good research from the UK showing the gaps that disabled women experience in health outcomes and health access and health equalities. So, I think that鈥檚 one huge issue.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think the other big issue is healthcare worker training. It should be around all disabilities, covering all access needs and reasonable adjustments so that we challenge the attitudes of healthcare workers, but also help them improve their knowledge and skills so that they can expect that women with disabilities are going to come through their door and that they know that they have to offer them high-quality care.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 How can we better get a grip on these problems and start fixing them?

HANNAH-听听听听听听听听听 We need really good evidence about what is happening and why. And then we need good evidence about what works. And when we design what works it has to be together with disabled women to make sure that the services are implemented, are acceptable and address the needs that they have. So, I think those are the two main things that are needed.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Professor Hannah Kuper, thank you for your expertise and for speaking to me. And Dani Watts, thank you so much for telling me your story on Access All.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听听听听

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Polly Crosby was a tiny baby when she became the first baby in the world to be diagnosed with cystic fibrosis by the heel prick test. These days the test is offered to every newborn baby in the UK. Polly is now in her 40s, and she鈥檚 an award winning author with a fantastic story of her own to tell. She鈥檚 with me in the studio to share it. Hi Polly.

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, thank you for having me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, thank you for being here. First baby in the world to be diagnosed via the heel price test; that鈥檚 some claim to fame, isn鈥檛 it?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 pretty amazing, isn鈥檛 it? I didn鈥檛 even realise until a few years ago. I was part of a trial and I knew that, but I never realised I was actually the first in the world.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 What is the heel prick test exactly?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, every newborn is given a blood test via their heel just after they鈥檙e born, and it tests for a variety of conditions. And from 1980 it also included CF. And they started the trial in East Anglia, where I鈥檓 from, so I happened to be the first positive result when they started testing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 How were people diagnosed with cystic fibrosis before the heel prick test was a thing?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, people with CF their sweat is very concentrated with sodium chloride. If you were to lick my skin, and I don鈥檛 advise it, I鈥檓 salty, I taste salty. And so if you catch a sweat sample you can test how much salt is in that sweat sample, and that鈥檚 another way of testing for CF.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And I suppose what鈥檚 interesting, and must have been quite interesting for you growing up, was that everyone who came before you was diagnosed later than you were.

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Generally yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 How was your life maybe different to someone was even a year or two older than you?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 My mum was a nurse, and although she hadn鈥檛 spent any time with people with CF she was very aware that I wasn鈥檛 right, because CF is not just a lung condition, it鈥檚 a digestive condition as well. And quite often it鈥檚 the digestive side that shows itself first. So, I was very fortunate to be diagnosed early because it meant that I could start physiotherapy on my chest every day to ensure that I didn鈥檛 get a chest infection, and I could be given enzyme powder to help me digest fat. But apart from that at that age I was still pretty normal, and thankfully a very happy, voracious baby.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. I think you鈥檙e still pretty normal, Polly, to be fair [laughter]. What is cystic fibrosis exactly?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, cystic fibrosis is a genetic condition. It affects the lungs and the digestive system. It was actually called cystic fibrosis because when it was first coined in 1938 it was referring to the scarring and the cysts on the lungs and on the pancreas. But actually it鈥檚 more about the lung condition and breathing and struggling to find air. It鈥檚 a life-limiting condition, so when I was born there was an average life expectancy of teenage years, and now it鈥檚 in the mid-40s. I鈥檝e always sort of chased that life expectancy, and now I鈥檓 just tipping over the other side of it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh wow. I knew people all the way up through my teenage years and 20s who died of CF. So, what was it like growing up as a kid and as a teen with CF in the 鈥�80s and the 鈥�90s?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It was in many ways an absolutely normal childhood. It was probably when I was about ten or 11 where it started to really make an impact on my life. At that point people with CF were able to meet each other because we hadn鈥檛 realised that actually if two people with CF meet they can share potentially life-threatening bugs and potentially that could end their life. So, at that point I saw other people at my CF clinic. But slowly as the years went on I would say to my mum, 鈥極h I haven鈥檛 seen so-and-so鈥� and she said, 鈥極h, she passed away, Polly鈥�. And it鈥檚 that growing realisation that actually you are doing very well in comparison to a lot of other people with CF, but that means that there鈥檚 a lot of pressure to continue to do well, and it鈥檚 quite frightening because you start to think, well when is it my turn.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Did you spend a lot of time in hospital?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I did. So, I needed intravenous antibiotics every few months, which would be given in hospital for the first few days and then I鈥檇 be allowed to go home. And for the final few days of a two-week course my mum would give them to me. That involved a lot of feeling quite unwell on the antibiotics, having a bandaged, splintered arm where the canula went in. And during that time I was at my most unwell because the reason I was having them was because my lung function had decreased and my appetite had decreased, and I was very breathless and unable to go to school. In some ways it was quite isolating, but I think that鈥檚 when I turned to reading and writing because I escaped into other worlds. And that鈥檚 what鈥檚 so incredible about books.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And you said you were quite unwell as a child and a teenager, but you鈥檙e in your 40s now. What kinds of things changed to help you live a full and interesting life like you do?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think there have been incredible changes throughout. I mean, look at medicine generally, the things that happen each year, the scientific research that goes on, the money that鈥檚 pumped into these things. There were antibiotics that were discovered in the 鈥�90s that helped; there were nebulisers and inhalers that came out in the early 2000s. The most recent medication that has helped a large part of the CF community is a drug called Kaftrio, or Trikafta, which actually changes a part of CF at a very base level which, to a certain extent, holds the progression of the disease.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e on Kaftrio.

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I am.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檝e been on it for a while.

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, I鈥檝e been on it since COVID. So, during COVID people with CF were classed as clinically extremely vulnerable, and we shut ourselves away, as everyone did. And fortunately the government decided that they could finally afford a very high price tag drug that could potentially keep us out of hospital, because they wanted to ensure that the ventilators were available for those with COVID. So, in some ways COVID was a bit of a life changer for me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And how has it been being on the drug? Are you much better in terms of CF symptoms? How do you think you鈥檇 be without it, kind of thing?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 an interesting one because, as with any drug, there are incredible things and there are not so incredible things. I don鈥檛 really believe that there is ever a miracle drug as such because there are always side effects and you never know what the long-term impacts of things are. Kaftrio has been incredible for me. If I wasn鈥檛 on it I would currently be coughing a lot more right now, which as someone who generally has an unseen invisible disability the idea of everyone having to hear and see that without me deciding whether I want to tell them, that was tricky, and so that鈥檚 been wonderful. I know that a lot of people on Kaftrio have been struggling with their mental health. The drug crosses the blood brain barrier and it means that a lot of us feel very tired, we get brain fog, there鈥檚 been a lot of depression and even some instances where people have had to be sectioned because it really does affect their whole life. And so it鈥檚 a balance. My life is being prolonged, but a lot of what I think of as me is not quite there anymore. It鈥檚 wonderful and I am so pleased that I am on it, but also it鈥檚 meant a lot of changes to my life. I鈥檓 a very joyful person generally, but I do feel that it has sucked a lot of that joy from my life.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh wow, that鈥檚 a huge thing. And what a choice to make as well for you: to live longer in terms of healthy lungs, and to look after your mental health as well. I鈥檓 sure writing must do a lot to help and to help with your thought processes around these big decisions. I mean, you鈥檝e published six books now, four for adults, two young adult ones, two for teens. You鈥檝e won some big prizes, including the Curtis Brown Creative Yesterday scholarship.

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Your current book, The Vulpine, is out. Tell me a bit about that book?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, The Vulpine is a young adult novel set in a world that鈥檚 very similar to ours, but anyone that鈥檚 born with a disability or a chronic illness is classed as imperfect. Any babies that are born like that are sent away to the Hospital for the Imperfect, which is basically no more than a glorified prison for children. But if parents decide they can鈥檛 or won鈥檛 send their children here there is another threat, known as The Vulpine. And they are fox-like monsters who live underground and come out and steal imperfect children. The novel is about a 15 year-old called Ora who believes that she is healthy and well, but suddenly she starts to get unwell with a condition very like cystic fibrosis. And it comes to light that her parents have been giving her black market medication to hide her symptoms, and that medication has run out and so she鈥檚 facing having to go to the Hospital for the Imperfect. And so instead she sets out to discover exactly what these vulpine creatures are and see if she can find a way through to living a better life.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And what would your tips be for other writers or prospective writers with a chronic illness?

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Little and often. Writing for me is like a muscle, if you do half an hour a day or even ten minutes a day, you don鈥檛 have to sit down at a desk with a laptop, you could sit in a car and open your phone. I know so many authors that write in the most random wonderful places, and sometimes it鈥檚 just those little snatches of things that come to you. I love the fact that I can write my novel as I鈥檓 ambling along with the dog. Okay, the dog walk it might mean that I can鈥檛 do anything else for the rest of the day, but at least while I鈥檝e been walking I鈥檝e been thinking. And that鈥檚 what writing is, it鈥檚 like this inner voice that鈥檚 always there and it doesn鈥檛 have to involve sitting down and writing 2,000 words.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Polly Crosby, thank you so much for joining me. And The Vulpine is out now in all good bookshops.

POLLY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thanks to Polly Crosby there for being, well, awesome. Who do you think I should be chatting to? What should we be talking about? Please do let me know. You can find us on email accessall@bbc.co.uk. We鈥檙e on WhatsApp 0330 123 9480 for all your voice and text messages. And you can find us on Instagram and Facebook @蜜芽传媒AccessAll.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Now, before I go we, as the Access All team, want to pay tribute to our fabulous friend and colleague, Kat Hawkins, who died recently. Kat was an incredible person who became disabled when they had their legs amputated below the knee due to meningitis when they were just 18. They worked with us on disability and mental health stories, travelled the world making films for the 蜜芽传媒 technology show, Click. Then Kat returned to dance, which was their first love. Kat also played sitting volleyball for Team GB, and they wore black armbands at a tournament at the weekend in Kat鈥檚 honour. To remember Kat Hawkins let鈥檚 bring in one of their team mates, Jeanette Adu-Bobie.

JEANETTE-听听听听听听听 Kat was a very fun-loving, free-spirited person and really enjoyed playing volleyball. She brought a smile to everybody. Just her being at training or being on the court put everybody in a positive mood. I remember her as somebody that was free-spirited, that loved to dance, that loved to express themselves through dance, loved to express themselves through volleyball. Kat鈥檚 death was extremely devastating to the team, and we have been marking it in several ways. We had a tournament and we marked it with a moment of applause to celebrate her life.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We on Access All remember Kat as being warm, funny, clever and creative. A great and supportive colleague who was always their honest and authentic selves. I think all of that really comes through in this clip from the Ouch disability podcast from 2016, in a chat about experiences when travelling by train as a disabled person:

[Clip]

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I have to be so vocal if I want people to realise that I am disabled and need a seat, and I hate doing that.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听听听 And what鈥檚 the outcome if you don鈥檛 get a seat?

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I have to stand.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听听听 And what does that do? Why is that a problem for you?

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, it鈥檚 painful. So, you can be standing for 45 minutes on a regular journey and it鈥檚 sore. I definitely could do with a seat, especially first thing in the morning when you鈥檙e coming in, the last thing you want is to start the day in pain.

KATE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Do you always ask for a seat?

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, not at all. Which the onus has to be on me in some way to ask for it, but at half 7 in the morning I don鈥檛 want to be doing that sometimes. So, this morning for example I got on and a seat became available so I did that sneaking in as quickly as you can, slippering into the seat [laughs] before anybody else could nab it. And a woman opposite me looked at me with disgust and I realised that there was a woman stood up who was 50 plus who perhaps should have been entitled to that seat as well, and the woman opposite didn鈥檛 realise I was disabled and made a point of saying to this other woman, 鈥楧on鈥檛 worry, I鈥檓 getting off at the next stop鈥� and then looked down and could see my prosthetics, because I鈥檇 pulled my trousers up a little bit.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听听听 You did that on purpose?

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, of course [laughs].

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you flashed a bit of what?

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 A little bit of prosthetic at the bottom, a little bit of ankle.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Take that. How guilty do you feel now? [Laughter]

KAT-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I know. And she said, 鈥極h sorry, I had no idea鈥�.

[End of clip]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That was Kat Hawkins who will be sorely missed. That鈥檚 it for this episode of Access All. I will be back soon though, and I can tell you that there are some really lovely interviews coming up in the next few weeks. See you soon. Bye.

[Trailer for Newscast]

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You know when you鈥檙e worried about something, but then you talk to your friend who knows more about the subject than you do, and straightaway you start to feel better? That鈥檚 what we try and do every day on Newscast.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Now, they鈥檙e saying that that would be simple to do, it would give everyone certainty.

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We talk to people who are in the news:

FEMALE-听听听听听听听听听听 You were chasing me round with a plate of cheese.

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We talk to people who know what鈥檚 going on in the news:

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 At least I didn鈥檛 get up and slap anybody.

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We talk to people who understand what the news means:

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think that he鈥檚 decided he鈥檚 going to listen, and then he might just intervene.

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And we talk to the best 蜜芽传媒 journalists, asking the most important questions:

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 What鈥檚 wrong with chinos? You don鈥檛 want them, people to start wearing chinos?

FEMALE-听听听听听听听听听听 Don鈥檛 start me, Chris.

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 Newscast from 蜜芽传媒 News, the podcast that knows a lot of people who know a lot about the news.

FEMALE-听听听听听听听听听听 And I was like, go on Kate, put some more welly into it!

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Listen to Newscast every weekday on 蜜芽传媒 Sounds.

CHRIS-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 glad I asked that.

FEMALE-听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 very glad that you asked that!

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